Theodore's World: Ole Community Organizer with Socialist Agenda vs.Sen. McCain Debate Notes

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October 16, 2008

Ole Community Organizer with Socialist Agenda vs.Sen. McCain Debate Notes

This election is about keeping the socialists from radically altering this country.

According to FOX, Obama is complaining today that he would be ahead by at least 3 more points if it wasn’t for FOX News. What a cry baby. He just can't stand the fact that he only controls 90% of the media.

In 8 years, President Bush has not complained ONE TIME about unfair treatment of the media. If Obama wins, is he going to spend all of his time crying and complaining if someone hurts his feelings.

McCain gives a shoutout to Nancy Reagan in the hospital.

McCain won the handshake!!

Obama is Ahhhhing excessively early on

McCain is bringing up the Joe the plummer...woohoo!!!.......McCain plays the PLUMBER CARD!

Joe Wurzelbacher, aka "Joe the Plumber".........a small Business Owner Confronts Obama On Raising His Taxes

Obama left the neighborhood right after the conversation with Joe, admitting that the conversation was good practice for the debate.


You know, when Senator Obama ended up his conversation with Joe the plumber -- we need to spread the wealth around. In other words, we're going to take Joe's money, give it to Senator Obama, and let him spread the wealth around.

I want Joe the plumber to spread that wealth around. You told him you wanted to spread the wealth around.
The whole premise behind Senator Obama's plans are class warfare, let's spread the wealth around. I want small businesses -- and by the way, the small businesses that we're talking about would receive an increase in their taxes right now.
Who -- why would you want to increase anybody's taxes right now? Why would you want to do that, anyone, anyone in America, when we have such a tough time, when these small business people, like Joe the plumber, are going to create jobs, unless you take that money from him and spread the wealth around.

Thank GOODNESS he’s mentioning the plumber and Obama’s tax plan!

McCain just said “Class Warfare”!!!!!!......Get em John!

SPREAD THE WEALTH! CLASS WARFARE! *smacksmack* ‘Why would you want to increase taxes on anyone right now?’

McCain lands one squarely! Keep it up John. Do not stop !! Obama is defending his Socialist IDEALS! BOOM GET EM JOHN!

MCCAIN: Nobody likes taxes. Let's not raise anybody's taxes. OK?

OBAMA: Well, I don't mind paying a little more.

This is a photo of Barack Obama and other New Party socialists including Danny K Davis (center), from the front page of New Party News,

Spring 1996: Power Line reported that Obama is even quoted in this socialist newsletter.

Obama actively sought the New Party’s endorsement and urged the Marxist members to join his campaigns. The New Party went so far as to claim Obama as an official member of their organisation. The New Party socialists were affiliated with the Democratic Socialists of America.



John McCain has come out swinging and is landing blows!

McCain has Obama on the defensive, no doubt about it.

McCain is getting into his groove, he started a bit rough, but when he got to the corporate tax stuff he was getting into his groove.

"Senator Obama, you're a United States Senator. Why haven't you introduced legislation for all these great ideas you have? In fact, to expand on that, why haven't you introduced them since the last time you promised them, in your earlier election!"

If you wanted to run against Pres Bush, you shouldve run 4 years ago . YEAH!!! LOL Obama’s lost half of his talking points for the rest of this debate!!!

“I am not President Bush” BAM! BAM BAM

Mac Slap! WOOHOO!!! “I am not President Bush”...looked directly at him...Body Slam!! McCain’s hammering him!

Obama being disrespectful while McCain talking. Snickering and laughing. I can't stand Obama!

McCain calls Obama Senator Government. hahahaha

Obama is clearly a little flustered by McCain’s jabs McCain is on his game tonight.

Hussein says he has a “history of reaching across the aisle”????.......What an unmitigated ass.

What the heck is Obama taking about? Every time he speaks my mind wonders, He is such a nothing and very hard to listen to. He’s a moron!

McCain has him on the ropes! Obama is starting to stutter. McCain has him rattled


SCHIEFFER: Senator Obama, your campaign has used words like "erratic," "out of touch," "lie," "angry," "losing his bearings" to describe Senator McCain.
Senator McCain, your commercials have included words like "disrespectful," "dangerous," "dishonorable," "he lied." Your running mate said he "palled around with terrorists."

Are each of you tonight willing to sit at this table and say to each other's face what your campaigns and the people in your campaigns have said about each other?

And, Senator McCain, you're first.


Well, this has been a tough campaign. It's been a very tough campaign. And I know from my experience in many campaigns that, if Senator Obama had asked -- responded to my urgent request to sit down, and do town hall meetings, and come before the American people, we could have done at least 10 of them by now.
When Senator Obama was first asked, he said, "Any place, any time," the way Barry Goldwater and Jack Kennedy agreed to do, before the intervention of the tragedy at Dallas. So I think the tone of this campaign could have been very different.
And the fact is, it's gotten pretty tough. And I regret some of the negative aspects of both campaigns. But the fact is that it has taken many turns which I think are unacceptable.
One of them happened just the other day, when a man I admire and respect -- I've written about him -- Congressman John Lewis, an American hero, made allegations that Sarah Palin and I were somehow associated with the worst chapter in American history, segregation, deaths of children in church bombings, George Wallace. That, to me, was so hurtful.
And, Senator Obama, you didn't repudiate those remarks. Every time there's been an out-of-bounds remark made by a Republican, no matter where they are, I have repudiated them. I hope that Senator Obama will repudiate those remarks that were made by Congressman John Lewis, very unfair and totally inappropriate.
So I want to tell you, we will run a truthful campaign. This is a tough campaign. And it's a matter of fact that Senator Obama has spent more money on negative ads than any political campaign in history. And I can prove it. And, Senator Obama, when he said -- and he signed a piece of paper that said he would take public financing for his campaign if I did -- that was back when he was a long-shot candidate -- you didn't keep your word.
And when you looked into the camera in a debate with Senator Clinton and said, "I will sit down and negotiate with John McCain about public financing before I make a decision," you didn't tell the American people the truth because you didn't.
And that's -- that's -- that's an unfortunate part. Now we have the highest spending by Senator Obama's campaign than any time since Watergate.


McCain is really on his game!

McCain has blamed Obama for not using the town halls to talk face to face. 10 townhalls any place anytime! Barrack didn’t do it! Go John!

Bringing up Lewis now...keep em hitting....McCain challenging Obama on the John Lewis stuff .

WOW GO John GO! Finally and this is great!



I mean, look, if we want to talk about Congressman Lewis, who is an American hero, he, unprompted by my campaign, without my campaign's awareness, made a statement that he was troubled with what he was hearing at some of the rallies that your running mate was holding, in which all the Republican reports indicated were shouting, when my name came up, things like "terrorist" and "kill him," and that you're running mate didn't mention, didn't stop, didn't say "Hold on a second, that's kind of out of line."
And I think Congressman Lewis' point was that we have to be careful about how we deal with our supporters.
But when people suggest that I pal around with terrorists, then we're not talking about issues. What we're talking about...

MCCAIN: Well, let me just say I would...

SCHIEFFER: (inaudible)


Let me just say categorically I'm proud of the people that come to our rallies. Whenever you get a large rally of 10,000, 15,000, 20,000 people, you're going to have some fringe peoples. You know that. And I've -- and we've always said that that's not appropriate.
But to somehow say that group of young women who said "Military wives for McCain" are somehow saying anything derogatory about you, but anything -- and those veterans that wear those hats that say "World War II, Vietnam, Korea, Iraq," I'm not going to stand for people saying that the people that come to my rallies are anything but the most dedicated, patriotic men and women that are in this nation and they're great citizens.
And I'm not going to stand for somebody saying that because someone yelled something at a rally -- there's a lot of things that have been yelled at your rallies, Senator Obama, that I'm not happy about either.
In fact, some T-shirts that are very...

OBAMA: John, I...


... unacceptable. So the point is -- the point is that I have repudiated every time someone's been out of line, whether they've been part of my campaign or not, and I will continue to do that.
But the fact is that we need to absolutely not stand for the kind of things that have been going on. I haven't.


John is ruling this debate and smashing the Pumpkin! Woo hoo!

Obama’s people smear Palin and McCain. Obama has spent more money on negative ads than any other campaign in history.

The ONE looks VERY TICKED. It’s all over his face, he can’t stand being confronted with the truth.

McCain calls him a liar and gives two shinning examples - Obama responds “well ... look. (thinking of a reply) “Political campaigns are tough.”

Obama is now attacking Palin.

McCain stands behind supporters!


Go, McCain!

John is FINALLY getting angry at this stupid Muslim

Obama offended at comments that he pals around with terrorists!

McCain not standing for any bull..people who come to his rallies are patriotic and alot of stuff at Obama’s rally unacceptable including the T shirts!!!

Mentions those disgusting C word shirts with Sarah's name on them, by Obama’s supporters.

McCain has the truth on his side....

McCain—saya he’s proud of the people who comes to our rallies.

Defends his supporters—vets—says a lot of things said at your rallies, Sen. Odummy.

Odummy flustered for a moment. Oh my gosh, he’s going after Ayers and ACORN now.


McCain:“I don’t care about an old washed-up terrorist but I really care about voter fraud being carried out by your campaign!”

McCain: we need to know the full relationship with Ayers;

HITS ODUMMY WITH ACORN HARD!!! MAC now challenges him on AYERS and ACORN !!!!!!!


OBAMA: Well, look, Bob, as I said...

SCHIEFFER: I mean, do you take issue with that?

OBAMA: You know, here's what I would say. I mean, we can have a debate back and forth about the merits of each other's campaigns. I suspect we won't agree here tonight.

What I think is most important is that we recognize that to solve the key problems that we're facing, if we're going to solve two wars, the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, if we can -- if we're going to focus on lifting wages that have declined over the last eight years and create jobs here in America, then Democrats, independents and Republicans, we're going to have to be able to work together.

And what is important is making sure that we disagree without being disagreeable. And it means that we can have tough, vigorous debates around issues. What we can't do, I think, is try to characterize each other as bad people. And that has been a culture in Washington that has been taking place for too long. And I think...

MCCAIN: Well, Bob, you asked me a direct question.

SCHIEFFER: Short answer, yes, short answer.


Yes, real quick. Mr. Ayers, I don't care about an old washed-up terrorist. But as Senator Clinton said in her debates with you, we need to know the full extent of that relationship.
We need to know the full extent of Senator Obama's relationship with ACORN, who is now on the verge of maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history in this country, maybe destroying the fabric of democracy. The same front outfit organization that your campaign gave $832,000 for "lighting and site selection." So all of these things need to be examined, of course.

SCHIEFFER: All right. I'm going to let you respond and we'll extend this for a moment.

OBAMA: Bob, I think it's going to be important to just -- I'll respond to these two particular allegations that Senator McCain has made and that have gotten a lot of attention.

In fact, Mr. Ayers has become the centerpiece of Senator McCain's campaign over the last two or three weeks. This has been their primary focus. So let's get the record straight. Bill Ayers is a professor of education in Chicago.

Forty years ago, when I was 8 years old, he engaged in despicable acts with a radical domestic group. I have roundly condemned those acts. Ten years ago he served and I served on a school reform board that was funded by one of Ronald Reagan's former ambassadors and close friends, Mr. Annenberg.

Other members on that board were the presidents of the University of Illinois, the president of Northwestern University, who happens to be a Republican, the president of The Chicago Tribune, a Republican- leaning newspaper.

Mr. Ayers is not involved in my campaign. He has never been involved in this campaign. And he will not advise me in the White House. So that's Mr. Ayers.

Now, with respect to ACORN, ACORN is a community organization. Apparently what they've done is they were paying people to go out and register folks, and apparently some of the people who were out there didn't really register people, they just filled out a bunch of names.

It had nothing to do with us. We were not involved. The only involvement I've had with ACORN was I represented them alongside the U.S. Justice Department in making Illinois implement a motor voter law that helped people get registered at DMVs.

Now, the reason I think that it's important to just get these facts out is because the allegation that Senator McCain has continually made is that somehow my associations are troubling.

Let me tell you who I associate with. On economic policy, I associate with Warren Buffett and former Fed Chairman Paul Volcker. If I'm interested in figuring out my foreign policy, I associate myself with my running mate, Joe Biden or with Dick Lugar, the Republican ranking member on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, or General Jim Jones, the former supreme allied commander of NATO.

Those are the people, Democrats and Republicans, who have shaped my ideas and who will be surrounding me in the White House. And I think the fact that this has become such an important part of your campaign, Senator McCain, says more about your campaign than it says about me.

MCCAIN: Well, again, while you were on the board of the Woods Foundation, you and Mr. Ayers, together, you sent $230,000 to ACORN. So -- and you launched your political campaign in Mr. Ayers' living room.

OBAMA: That's absolutely not true.

MCCAIN: And the facts are facts and records are records.

OBAMA: And that's not the facts.


And it's not the fact -- it's not the fact that Senator Obama chooses to associate with a guy who in 2001 said that he wished he had have bombed more, and he had a long association with him. It's the fact that all the -- all of the details need to be known about Senator Obama's relationship with them and with ACORN and the American people will make a judgment.
And my campaign is about getting this economy back on track, about creating jobs, about a brighter future for America. And that's what my campaign is about and I'm not going to raise taxes the way Senator Obama wants to raise taxes in a tough economy. And that's really what this campaign is going to be about.


SCHIEFFER: So I'll begin by asking both of you this question, and I'll ask you to answer first, Senator Obama. Why would the country be better off if your running mate became president rather than his running mate?


Well, Americans have gotten to know Sarah Palin. They know that she's a role model to women and other -- and reformers all over America. She's a reformer. She is -- she took on a governor who was a member of her own party when she ran for governor. When she was the head of their energy and natural resources board, she saw corruption, she resigned and said, "This can't go on."
She's given money back to the taxpayers. She's cut the size of government. She negotiated with the oil companies and faced them down, a $40 billion pipeline of natural gas that's going to relieve the energy needs of the United -- of what they call the lower 48.
She's a reformer through and through. And it's time we had that bresh of freth air (sic) -- breath of fresh air coming into our nation's capital and sweep out the old-boy network and the cronyism that's been so much a part of it that I've fought against for all these years.
She'll be my partner. She understands reform. And, by the way, she also understands special-needs families. She understands that autism is on the rise, that we've got to find out what's causing it, and we've got to reach out to these families, and help them, and give them the help they need as they raise these very special needs children.
She understands that better than almost any American that I know. I'm proud of her.
And she has ignited our party and people all over America that have never been involved in the political process. And I can't tell how proud I am of her and her family.
Her husband's a pretty tough guy, by the way, too.


SCHIEFFER: Let's go to -- let's go to a new topic. We're running a little behind. Let's talk about energy and climate control.


Well, you know, I admire so much Senator Obama's eloquence. And you really have to pay attention to words. He said, we will look at offshore drilling. Did you get that? Look at. We can offshore drill now. We've got to do it now. We will reduce the cost of a barrel of oil because we show the world that we have a supply of our own. It's doable. The technology is there and we have to drill now.
I have fought against -- well, one of them would be the marketing assistance program. Another one would be a number of subsidies for ethanol.
I oppose subsidies for ethanol because I thought it distorted the market and created inflation; Senator Obama supported those subsidies.
I would eliminate the tariff on imported sugarcane-based ethanol from Brazil.
I know how to save billions. I saved the taxpayer $6.8 billion by fighting a deal for a couple of years, as you might recall, that was a sweetheart deal between an aircraft manufacturer, DOD, and people ended up in jail.
But I would fight for a line-item veto, and I would certainly veto every earmark pork-barrel bill. Senator Obama has asked for nearly $1 billion in pork-barrel earmark projects...

Now, on the subject of free trade agreements.


I am a free trader. And I need -- we need to have education and training programs for displaced workers that work, going to our community colleges.
But let me give you another example of a free trade agreement that Senator Obama opposes. Right now, because of previous agreements, some made by President Clinton, the goods and products that we send to Colombia, which is our largest agricultural importer of our products, is -- there's a billion dollars that we -- our businesses have paid so far in order to get our goods in there.
Because of previous agreements, their goods and products come into our country for free. So Senator Obama, who has never traveled south of our border, opposes the Colombia Free Trade Agreement. The same country that's helping us try to stop the flow of drugs into our country that's killing young Americans.
And also the country that just freed three Americans that will help us create jobs in America because they will be a market for our goods and products without having to pay -- without us having to pay the billions of dollars -- the billion dollars and more that we've already paid.
Free trade with Colombia is something that's a no-brainer. But maybe you ought to travel down there and visit them and maybe you could understand it a lot better.
Well, let me just say that that this is -- he -- Senator Obama doesn't want a free trade agreement with our best ally in the region but wants to sit down across the table without precondition to -- with Hugo Chavez, the guy who has been helping FARC, the terrorist organization.
Free trade between ourselves and Colombia, I just recited to you the benefits of concluding that agreement, a billion dollars of American dollars that could have gone to creating jobs and businesses in the United States, opening up those markets.
So I don't -- I don't think there's any doubt that Senator Obama wants to restrict trade and he wants to raise taxes. And the last president of the United States that tried that was Herbert Hoover, and we went from a deep recession into a depression.

There were some other topic, but all in all McCain did GREAT and Obama left very ticked I am sure of it. The media can say what they want about the debate but McCain won this one hands down in a big way.

McCain mentioned Ayers, he mentioned Acorn, he mentioned Infanticide...all without sounding angry. Good performance. Senator Government will stick...same with Joe the Plummer, same with “you should have ran 4 years ago”....great lines.

Obama tends to say “...But the important thing is...” and then change or alter the subject. It’s a way to trivialize what was being discussed.

He also LOVES Alinsky’s focus on ALWAYS USE RIDICULE. His sarcastic smiles and laughter, his mocking, superior tone... Put the other guy down. It ALWAYS gives you a nice gang of scaredy-cat followers who are just glad it’s not them you are mocking.

Did anyone else notice Obama sipping water (bad sign) and looking at the moderator, basically IMPLORING HIM to cut McCain off?

Obama is downright dangerous - And even more so with a Pelosi House and Reid Senate.

I started laughing when McCain called him “Senator Government”. DEFEAT SENATOR GOVERNMENT!!!

This photo released by the McCain 2008 campaign, Republican vice presidential candidate Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and her husband Todd Palin watch the final presidential debate from their hotel room in Manchester, N.H.

Posted by Wild Thing at October 16, 2008 03:50 AM


I really hated the after debate comments by Brit and panel…but later I thought different of it. Really, I think FOX bends over a little too far backwards sometimes to be “fair and balanced” and they still get dubbed FAUX NEWS by the sillies who don’t probably don’t even watch it in the first place.

Recently and even in the debate, Obama has time after time whined about Sean Hannity and FOX News in general hurting his precious little feelings.

It really makes him look the childish fool when the FOX News shows actually go out of their way to put on slanted panels (two moderates and two liberals in the Brit panel) that pretty much put McCain down and gave it to Obama.

Where’s the beef, Obama?

So in my mind, they are out to prove his whining is childish and baseless.

They are hitting the good points on Fox & Friends this morning, no assy kissy there.


I think McCain opened the door to a lot of things he wouldn't really expand on before and didn't have the time to detail last night.

This election cycle is getting physically and mentally excruciating for me. I will be so glad when they put the final nail in Obama's political career coffin. I truly believe they have the goods to take him out, but the wait is painful.

Posted by: Eden at October 16, 2008 07:15 AM

I did not watch -- everytime I flipped it on Obama had his mouth running-- so I gave up- ! Very glad to hear McCain finally came after Obama!
I had a black girl about 23, say to me yesterday-- you are going to vote for Obama right?-- I was at the Dr.'s office- I looked at her and said you know at this point I can't stand either one of them- I have not made up my mind if I will vote at all!! She then started telling me how wonderful Obama would be for the economy-
Pushy southern Obama lovers- I almost went off on her like bottle rocket- but I didn't. Obama sucks- I hope he loses so badly that he becomes the laughing stock of the world!!

Posted by: Cheryl Zee at October 16, 2008 10:00 AM

Straight Facts Express: In 2000 'W' was behind in the supposed polls to the Sorelosermen, and in 2004 the same for 'W' against Senator Lurch Kerry! Keep the FAITH and Hillary's base will put Mac & Sarah into the Oval Office! ACORN will backfire and the investigations will result in LOST illegal votes in Ohio, big time.

Posted by: darthcrUSAderworldtour07 at October 16, 2008 10:32 AM

Thank you for the critique Chrissie. I suffered through the debate, John had him on the ropes but didn't deliver the K.O., he backed off too early, but he did put Obama doubts out there for the voter to think about. The most glaring thing this phoney poser did last night was wear the U.S. flag pin on his left lapel where it glittered like a diamond in a goat's ass for the camera. All of a sudden he's posturing patriotic, gimme a break Mr. Alinski!!!

Posted by: Jack at October 16, 2008 10:34 AM

Eden, thanks so much for your taike on the debate and Fox also.

And this whew I sure feel this way too.I am exhausted. 2 years of this has seemed like a lifetime.

"This election cycle is getting physically and mentally excruciating for me. I will be so glad when they put the final nail in Obama's political career coffin. I truly believe they have the goods to take him out, but the wait is painful."

Posted by: Wild Thing at October 16, 2008 11:34 AM

Cheryl, you did the healthy thing. haha I mean it, it is hard to watch these debates and I can't stand looking or hearing Obama especially.

Like Rush Limbaugh has said, just keep Obama from winning then we can deal with the rino McCain after he is elected. Those are in my words but basically that is how Rush has said it and I agree.

I am just so grateful and thank God for Sarah being part of the team.

Posted by: Wild Thing at October 16, 2008 11:39 AM

Darth, thank you I sure hope they come down hard on ACORN and all those illegal votes. This makes me sick and furious and is dangerous because it could make people not feel like voting.

Posted by: Wild Thing at October 16, 2008 12:00 PM

Jack,your right, I noticed the lapel pin too. He must think we are stupid and not able to see through his baloney.

Posted by: Wild Thing at October 16, 2008 12:04 PM

Any of you remember this statement by Obama?

OBAMA: I mean, look, if we want to talk about Congressman Lewis, who is an American hero, he, unprompted by my campaign, without my campaign's awareness, made a statement that he was troubled with what he was hearing at some of the rallies that your running mate was holding, in which all the Republican reports indicated were shouting, when my name came up, things like "terrorist" and "kill him," and that you're running mate didn't mention, didn't stop, didn't say "Hold on a second, that's kind of out of line."

Think of this folks? Secret Service Agents are peppered all throughout these rallies. If anyone would have yelled "kill him" in reference to a presidential candidate, the Secret Service would have been all over that person in a heartbeat.

For Obama to make that statement, he's not only trying to make Palin look bad but also he's saying the Secret Service isn't doing their job.

Posted by: BobF at October 16, 2008 12:45 PM

Secret Service have confirmed no one said kill him.

It was bs.

Posted by: Eden at October 16, 2008 03:01 PM

As Bob states not one of the Secret Service agents heard any such comments, yet Obama has not stepped in to refute the lie. In the Soviet of Washington we have Sam Reed, he is a Republican and currently serves as the Secretary of State of Washington. Reed was instrumental in the vote count that ushered in Christine Gregoire under suspicious conditions, here is his latest adventure.

He is one of 4 running on the ticket 2 of which are Reps, well Washington Reps which means little d as opposed to big D.

Just another example of what's wrong with the GOP. They're like a can of worms entwined in slime to the point you can't tell one from another.

Posted by: Jack at October 16, 2008 03:10 PM

BobF, I agree and thank you for putting the quote in your comment too.
Itis so true, the SS are right there and they take that kind of thing seriously. Also I was always thinking the kill him thing was about Ayers for being a terrorist not said aimed at Obama.

Posted by: Wild Thing at October 16, 2008 05:14 PM

Eden thank you for the information. I was hoping they would come to that, that is great. Now Obama will be disappointed he can't use it, at if he wants to be honest but then I might as well say that is impossible.

Posted by: Wild Thing at October 16, 2008 05:17 PM

Jack very interesting, thank you for the link and information too.

Good description....
"They're like a can of worms entwined in slime to the point you can't tell one from another."

Posted by: Wild Thing at October 16, 2008 05:23 PM

There arte very few people on my dispise list but Hussein O'Vomit is at the top followed by his skanky fat assed scumbag America hating bimbo sex partner.

Posted by: cuchieddie at October 17, 2008 04:40 PM

The Old Retired First Class Petty Officer did not, I say again, did not watch. Simple reason, I get ill at hearing treason and lies from the mouth of the obammymessiah-hopeychangeypants. What a useless assbag. And to think I gave the first 20 years of my adult life to people such as this.
Yeah, I said it treason and lies. If an old sailor can't speak his piece, then no one will be able to. So, to the barackenstein, kiss my buckskin ass!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: GM Cassel AMH1(AW) USN RETIRED at October 17, 2008 11:02 PM