Theodore's World: Marines Expelled from Afghanistan! WTF????

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March 25, 2007

Marines Expelled from Afghanistan! WTF????

Top general in Afghanistan expels Marines

The top American general in Afghanistan has expelled a U.S. Marine special operations company for the way the men responded to an ambush March 4, Marine sources said.

Maj. Cliff Gilmore, a spokesman for Marine Special Operations Command, confirmed to The Examiner that the company of 120 Marines is redeploying.

He said the decision followed an ambush on the company's convoy by a vehicle-borne improvised explosive device. A second Marine source said the Marines retaliated and some civilians were killed.

The action brought an abrupt end to what promised to be a historic deployment. The unit sailed in January from Camp Lejeune, N.C., as the first Marine Corps special operations company sent overseas. The Corps joined U.S. Special Operations Command a year ago.

The company is now redeploying to Kuwait after just a few weeks in Afghanistan in what was supposed to be a six-month tour.

A Marine officer assigned to special operations said Lt. Gen. Karl Eikenberry, the top U.S. commander, took the extraordinary step of expelling the unit after he consulted with Afghan Prime Minister Hamid Karzai.

A spokesman for Eikenberry could not be reached today.

Wild Thing's comment.........

WTF! So our guys have to get a rule book out every time they are ambushed??? What about the fact that they have to fight combattants who wear no military uniforms. The war will NEVER be won as long as political correctness and stupid-ass liberalism replaces a sound, aggressive military strategy.

Marines are problem solvers! The citizens shouldn't allow the bad guys in, they are part of the problem. They hide them in their homes, and sometimes yes from fear of them but I could care less. If these people want the insurgents to go away to die and stop causeing death then they , the citizens, need to take a stand too.

A Marine officer assigned to special operations said Lt. Gen. Karl Eikenberry, the top U.S. commander, took the extraordinary step of expelling the unit after he consulted with Afghan Prime Minister Hamid Karzai.

Another PC general!! The days of "Blood and Guts" Patton are long gone. And I want them back, screw PC! You cannot fight a war and go around arresting the troops for doing what they were trained to do.

It's a devil's deal, when you're caught in an ambush like this.

Do you simply take your losses and run away? That's the preferred Army doctrine. It avoids civilian casualties, but it also establishes a hunter/hunted relationship with the enemy in the hunter position. That's a direct mental victory for them, and a loss for us. It also encourages them to use these tactics, for years on end.

Do you attempt to engage your attackers? Hard to do when you don't know who they are, hiding as they do among civilians. They're not afraid to die, and they're not only willing to sacrifice civilians, they're trying to get us to kill them on accident. Events like this and Haditha aren't lucky coincidences for them. It's doctrine. Captured training manuals state they are directed to try and engineer *atrocities* that our media will pick up on.

No matter what you do, that media is there, ready to announce your sins to the world, while the Inquisitors from JAG ready the gallows.

"Victory" has long ago been replaced by "don't cause bad press". That's our policy now, and our side won't hesitate to crucify you over it.

Again - when you try to fight a "PC" war, you are going to loose. Our formerly beloved POTUS, GWBush, who looked like a hero when the WOT began, now looks like another sniveling whimp.

I have had it - either FIGHT THE DANGED WAR, or bring ALL of our troops worldwide back home. We obviously are not REALLY going to fight anybody. Bring them home, put 100K troops on the southern border, and just ignore the rest of the world's problems.

What the hell is the next step is for these Marines to be sued by CAIR?? And give the Taliban pay off money?

Posted by Wild Thing at March 25, 2007 12:14 PM


Defeat snatched from the jaws of victory, didn't that happen from 1963 to 1973 also? The ghosts of McNamara and Johnson are still at work. we are reaping the spoils of a micromanaged PC war. *spit*

Our Marines today like those who fought in Vietnam are now supposed to recieve enemy fire and die whilst waiting for permission to return fire because Halfast Karzai allows his F'wits to attack the U.S troops with impunity, I suppose those troops are fed the same bullshit line I was fed that we are guests of their country, when in reality the troops are there to fight their war.

Those Marines would be better served in an all out S&D against the enemy forces on Pennsylvania Ave who are allowing this farce.

Posted by: Jack at March 25, 2007 02:56 PM

This is ludicrous, and I'm surprised a Marine officer demanded the expulsion.

You gain nothing in a decision like this except to encourage your enemies and demoralize your friends. Furthermore, it discredits the old promises of the C in C by portraying him as a weak-willed boaster who can't live up to the demands of the war.

This government, at every level, has lost its legitimacy for me, and can no longer be trusted with the security of the nation.

Posted by: Rhod at March 25, 2007 04:55 PM

Rhod- You are spot on. WT is right if we are not allowed to win this WOT then why the hell are we there.

From what I remember from Ambush training, any one not involved directly, attacked/fired on in the ambush is to respond by flanking the enemy and everyone in that area is considered the enemy and it is a kill zone. If civilians were killed, then what were they doing in an area used to ambush our troops.

Congress is useless and no guts at all, the President has a bunker mentality and will not defend his own troops.

This is the worst of all worlds and our troops are caught in the middle. If this is the way we are going to fight this thing then it is time to pull out and wait till they come here. Because our own government has invited this disaster.

Posted by: Mark at March 25, 2007 05:21 PM

Chrissie - My father is a WW II and Korean War combat Marine (1st-2nd-6th MAR DIV)and he I thank him for having used his flame throwers, grenades, and shooting his BAR and Thompson machine gun with
relentless fortitude so I can live in freedom today! GOOD NEWS! Red State Florida Gators 85 -
Flagburning State of Oregon 77 and the Gators go to the Final Four in NCAA Basketball! Sorry Oregonners? I was surprised their players didn't try to burn Old Glory when they departed the court. Hey hey hey...Good bye poor little Duckies!

Posted by: darthcrUSAderworldtour07 at March 25, 2007 05:28 PM

We just don't learn our lessons very well, do we?
We could have won Korea and Vietnam had we NOT allowed the liberal media to dictate terms and rules on how to "run a war."
We won the American Revolution because we fought without rules. We knew who the enemy was

Posted by: Lynn at March 25, 2007 06:54 PM

I'm sorry--let me finish--my teenager was calling on the phone to tell me what time to pick her up after helping to break down the set of her school's spring musical.
We knew who our enemy was--our own government and we fought because we believed in the cause of right.
Both sides won the Civil war--it wasn't just about slavery--but state's rights to govern themselves.
Now, when we need our government to believe in a just and righteous cause, they tuck tail and run, like a bunch of pansies.
Do these people deserve any less than the goodness the Lord has bestowed on us? Should we not share?
Doesn't the Bible tell us to Love one another?
Now we don't know who the enemy is--us or them!

Posted by: Lynn at March 25, 2007 07:00 PM

Frustration with our leadership. I understand being held to higher standards than the enemy. But not so much so our own troops are endangered, demoralized and prosecuted. And as we shackle our troops, it encourages our enemies even more. When I refer to "our enemies" I include the news media and our extrordinarily weak, self serving politicians, as well as the rest of the "Free World" that does nothing to battle those that want to destroy them.

I am with Chrissie that it may be time to bring our tired troops home and use them to secure our borders and coasts. And use law enforcement to clean all illegals out of America. It sounds isolationist, but we are alone in this war.

Posted by: TomR at March 25, 2007 07:10 PM

Let's follow the money trail.

You have a Leutenant Gereral who's hoping to make (4-star) General. When 4-Stars retire, they have to retire at the rate of a 2-star gerneral unless approved for the 4-star retirement pay by congress. I'll use 30 years for example. The retirement pay for a 2-star vs 4-star is:

2-star retirement pay....$104,382
4-star retirement pay....$137,106

With a Democrat controlled congress in power and, God Forbid, a Democrat gaining control of the White House, expelling the company by the general is a good move. It fits right in line with PC events controlling Washington. He'll be looked at as a tough leader whose willing to "eat his own" in order to advance. This maneuver could have ensured his 4th Star and the congressionally approved retirement that goes along with it. It's worth well over $30,000 per year in retirement pay, not to mention appointment to military commissions and such.

Posted by: BobF at March 25, 2007 10:13 PM

Jack it has me so upset, I even cried about it. It breaks my heart, because I just know it is effecting not only the Marines that were told to leave, but the word gets out to others serving and it will tick them off too and put them in more danger.

Posted by: Wild Thing at March 25, 2007 11:46 PM

Rhod I agree, everything you said is how I feel.

Posted by: Wild Thing at March 25, 2007 11:48 PM

Mark, your right........."This is the worst of all worlds and our troops are caught in the middle.".......and it is so upsetting and I am afraid for our troops. Their morale for one thing oh man this is so horrible.

Posted by: Wild Thing at March 25, 2007 11:49 PM

Darth thank you for sharing about your Father.

That is great news about the Gators.

Posted by: Wild Thing at March 25, 2007 11:51 PM

Lynn, your right, we need to learn from the past and our leadership is not. Very sad and very upsetting.

Posted by: Wild Thing at March 25, 2007 11:52 PM

Tom, me too, I include in our enemies the media and our politicians.

Posted by: Wild Thing at March 25, 2007 11:53 PM

Lynn, that is neat about your daughter working with the school spring musical. What fun.

I agree so much Lynn, we need to be stronger then ever now get weaker and weaker and cave in to the demands of the PC bunch.

Posted by: Wild Thing at March 25, 2007 11:56 PM

Bob, thanks for the information and your input on this.

Posted by: Wild Thing at March 25, 2007 11:58 PM

What a tangeled web they weve.The word is Brig.
General Brooks has a hand in this along with
Lt. Gen. Karl Eikenberry.Funny both are ARMY!!!
General Brooks is the man who is trying to throw
Michael Yon out of Irag.the last part is true
the first could just be B/S but its out there...

Posted by: Tincan Sailor at March 26, 2007 12:19 AM

Wild Thing,
I've written you before and usually agree with you. I am a retired Army Major with 25 years of service. I have followed this story very closely and can tell you, flat out, I would have court martialed the company commander.
His men killed multiple people by indiscriminately firing on unarmed civilians. There were a lot of witnesses and even the Marines involved admitted the mistake. The company commander has lost control of his unit and can no loner maintain discipline.
Personally, I do not want a bunch of trigger happy knuckle-heads indiscriminately killing whoever they want just because they were a little scared. That is extremely unprofessional and makes us all look stupid.
Robin E. Roberts

Posted by: Robin Roberts at March 26, 2007 12:18 PM

Hi Maj., nice to see you,thank you for your input about this.

Posted by: Wild Thing at March 26, 2007 01:18 PM

Apparently the officers who would have made the decision to prosecute did not agree with Major Robert's assessment.

If a Marine had committed a warcrime, the USMC would have dealt with him.

Since the general in command could not get a prosecution, the best he could do to mollify the Afghanis was re-assign the unit out of the country.

Posted by: Kristopher at March 26, 2007 03:40 PM

Major Roberts, I'm a USAF Gulf War and Somalia aircrew vet and I was smart enough to retire when I went over 20 years. My father is a WW II and Korean War combat leatherneck. When I retired, the Twin Towers were STILL up and our Pentagon was never attacked. Go ahead major and fight by the rules against an enemy that doesn't have to! Go ahead major and wear uniforms and insignias when your enemies don't have to. My father used grenades and BAR's and took NO prisoners of war sir...NONE...ZIP...NADA one.
Guess what major, he killed Communist Chinese soldiers in Korea that weren't supposed to be in the war... Imagine that?
Our 'Rules of NON - Engagement' is the reason that we've lost so many brave heroes already.
Thank-you for your 'PC' advice that doesn't FLY with me nor the Greatest Generation in World War II. GOD bless our second amendment and the right to bear arms and lock and load! WE will defend America from within and WE will do so when our US armed forces can not.

Posted by: darthcrUSAderworldtour07 at March 26, 2007 08:08 PM

Kristopher,yes, like Maj. Roberts said in his comment to me regarding my comment in the post I made in the story, that on this he and I do not agree.

All the men in my familiy have served our country, one of my Uncles was in the Chosin, another Uncle Battle of the Bulge, cousins in Nam war etc.
I have had way too many Vets, friends and relatives, from various wars and battles tell me stories from the deepest part of their hearts how when fighting back a person cannot be particular in the throws of battle of the age, sex etc. of the enemy. I agree with those that told me these things, and I would have been the same way if I had been in the military.

I am proud of these men for doing what they did in battle, and in this latest story as well. PC is getting our troops killed, it is getting our troops injured in such horrible ways as well. Do politicians and our media care that PC and the left is to blame? No they will never see it that way.

Thanks again so much Kristopher.

Posted by: Wild Thing at March 27, 2007 12:07 AM

PS: About being 'a little scared' major, it's natural for those of us that have actually been in a war. But then our faith and adrenaline
surface and we, for the most part, react positively and kick ass. "A smoking gun smokes...
AFTER the trigger is pulled...if you're not DEAD already!" Scared? I'm worried about the troops that aren't a 'little scared/worried'!

Posted by: darthcrUSAderworldtour07 at March 27, 2007 09:20 AM

Although I do appreciate that some may disagree with me, I think some miss the issue completely. I was always scared when someone was shooting at me, but I stopped shooting when the person was dead or I was out of range. I did not continue to shoot people 2 miles from the ambush and I certainly did not shoot unarmed civilians. Anyone who wants soldiers or Marines like that probably would scream if the local police were shooting citizens 2 miles from a robbery. Murder is murder; sometimes innocent people are killed in war but as Americans, we have to try to protect the innocent.
Up until now, Americans troops were always looked upon favorably and locals didn't have to worry about being murdered by our troops while walking down their own streets. Very few countries in the world can say that; now only the Brits and the Aussies can make that claim. It is really a shame that some believe killing a woman or child is okay just because someone took shots at some of our guys.
Robin E. Roberts

Posted by: Robin Roberts at March 27, 2007 11:24 AM

We are fighting savages beyound the pale.They are
well known for stashing weapons at verious
locations then open fire on our troops,ditch
the weapons and fade into the crowd and pickup
new weapons and do it all over again.Also they
have no problem of opening fire from the middle
of a crowed.Next they also shoot the M-16 so
wounds look as though the were shot by americans.They also don't have any qualms about using children as bait.Lastly they just used 2 kids to get them thru a check point then jumped
out of the car set off the bomb with the kids
still in the car.To my way of thinking those
folks arn't worth an other drop of American blood
we need to pull back let the bastards fight it out and kill the hell out of each other then go
back and clean out the crap thats left..


Posted by: Tincan Sailor at March 27, 2007 03:50 PM

Tincan Sailor,
I certainly can't disagree with you on the last comment you left. Sometimes I just want to nuke the place, but then I think of my two boys and about the other innocents caught up in a war through no fault of their own. Maybe I'm just getting old and have finally realized that death is very permanent.
Of course, if someone was in my country without my wishes (thinking Redcoats here) I would take a shot whenever I could.
I personally believe that there should be a winner and a loser in a conflict. If the UN had been around during our Civil War, we would still be two warring countries.

Posted by: Robin Roberts at March 27, 2007 04:09 PM

Major Robin Roberts is a Real Soldier.
Someone who has maintained their humanity and integrity despite having seen the worst life can offer.

Posted by: neil at March 27, 2007 05:50 PM

Hi Wildthing,
well, although the scenario I outlined is not unkown, that was a bit below the belt.
Apologies. Innocentbedslaughterburnhouse is more the airforce's department.

For a person like myself, who believes in humanity, it's important to engage in dialogue
with people to whom I am diametrically opposed. I simply don't understand your way of
thinking, which shocks and hurts me, but if I don't join in the debate then I can
develop no yardstick for my own beliefs.
I feel I am justified in pursuing contact with you because your convictions are strongly
felt and from the heart. If you can give it out, you can take it.
If by posting my rants you are spoiling the flow of your site then, by all means,
censor me, it's what the right-wing do.
Feel free to email.

Regards, Neil.

Posted by: neil at March 27, 2007 05:59 PM

Neil, all is ok.You can comment and rant all you like. Most of the time I allow the other side to comment. Heck I have even allowed Muslims to comment sometimes.

Regarding Major Robin Roberts. No one here has attacked his service to our country. I am grateful that he served and he knows that. It is ok to disagree on things, we do not all think the same about how a battle should be fought or a hill taken.

He disagreed with me and I understand what he said and appreciate that he felt he could differ in his thoughts than mine. But nonetheless I still disagree as to how I would do it if I was in the military and fighting these monsters of Islam.

I don't expect robots to comment here and always agree with what I have said about something. Some subjects I will be more passionate about then others. This just happens to be one of many. hahaha

Posted by: Wild Thing at March 27, 2007 06:32 PM

We can beat around this bush for ever but the
fact speak for them selves...We have never,never
encountered an enemy like this.they are stuck in
a time warp around 200BC.One of the biggest factors is they arn't afraid to "DIE".They are
savages.they behead young girls because they are
christian.they have no problem using children in
IEDS,It's ok to beat and kill their wives.You tell me how you fight folks like that and stay
squeekie clean..This ain't a afternoon tea its
for real and for our Countrys way of life...
you had best remember Ayman al-Zawhiri's words
to America Convert to Islam or die...If fighting
to win and that means by anyway we can sticks
in your craw I might recomend you buy a little 3x5'rug and a copy of the koran and a compass
to find the way east as you will need it...

Posted by: Tincan Sailor at March 28, 2007 01:22 PM

From the NY Times.

AGHDAD, March 20 — Insurgents detonated a bomb in a car with two children in it after using the children as decoys to get through a military checkpoint in Baghdad, an American general said Tuesday.

Speaking at a news briefing at the Pentagon, Maj. Gen. Michael D. Barbero, deputy director for regional operations at the Joint Staff, said American soldiers had stopped the car at the checkpoint but had allowed it to pass after seeing the two children in the back seat.

“Children in the back seat lower suspicion,” he said, according to a transcript. “We let it move through. They parked the vehicle. The adults run out and detonate it with the children in back.”

Posted by: BobF at March 28, 2007 08:10 PM