Theodore's World: Flag-burning 'lesson' Provokes UM Student

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November 05, 2007

Flag-burning 'lesson' Provokes UM Student



Flag-burning 'lesson' provokes UM student

Bangor Daily News

ORONO, Maine

A University of Maine student alleges her former professor offered extra credit to class members if they burned the American flag or the U.S. Constitution or were arrested defending free speech.

On the first day of class, associate professor Paul Grosswiler offered the credit to members of his History of Mass Communications class, according to sophomore Rebekah McDade. Disturbed by the comment, McDade dropped the class and intends to take the course again next semester with a different professor.

"I was offended," McDade said Friday. "I come from a family of military men and women, and the flag and Constitution are really important symbols to me because of my family background."

In an e-mail responding to a request for comment from the Bangor Daily News on Friday, Grosswiler said he thought McDade misunderstood the class discussion, which was intended to elicit thought about the First Amendment. He said he has held this same discussion for years without incident.

"I don’t intend for students to burn either the Constitution or the flag, and over the years hundreds of students have understood that," Grosswiler wrote.
A journalism and political science double major, McDade said the first class of her fall semester at UM began with the typical syllabus introduction and class overview. Despite repeated "liberal" comments made by Grosswiler, McDade said, she was not uncomfortable in the classroom until the flag burning comment.
"Everyone is entitled to their own political beliefs, and more power to you if you are passionate about it," McDade said.

When Grosswiler listed the extra-credit opportunities, McDade said the class of approximately 50 students grew very quiet, and some questioned whether he was serious.

At first, student Kathleen Dame said she thought Grosswiler was joking, but then he went on to explain to the class that burning the flag was not illegal.

While Grosswiler approached the topic in a serious manner, Dame said she felt he used it as a tool to educate the class on the First Amendment.

"It was pretty outlandish and [he was] trying to prove a point," Dame said Friday.

While McDade said she would not be surprised if students followed through with the flag burning, Dame disagreed.

UM spokesman Joe Carr said Friday that Grosswiler’s classroom comments were not intended to be taken literally and that extra credit would not be granted for carrying out such activities.

A second person in the class did submit a complaint about the lecture, but Carr did not know in what form it was filed.

When asked whether the university would pursue disciplinary action, Carr replied, "No."


Wild Thing's comment.........

I think there are much better and other ways to teach such things then to even go anywhere near suggesting to burn the Flag. I applaud this student for speaking out, and I am very disappointed in the University for not taking time to investigate this claim simply based on the fact that Grosswiler has been a staff member for years.

What is amazing about these liberal free speech types is the type of free speech they want. Burn the flag, burn the constitution, they think that is on the edge, showing free speech. Any two-bit dweeb can do that. Why don't these free speech liberals say extra points for burning the Koran? Now, that is a challenge on free speech, but they won't do that because they know the result of their actions, we all know how bad that would be. Ask the Danes.

Posted by Wild Thing at November 5, 2007 12:45 AM


Comments

And now you know why we send our kids to red state southern universities! They tell me the babes look like babes and the belles look like belles, and not like the skanks on The View...

Posted by: darthcrUSAderworldtour07 at November 5, 2007 04:14 AM


I think this professor ought to be severely reprimanded. Burning the flag or the US Constitution? Please--give me a break. That does not fall under Freedom of Speech. Sorry, Charlie.
Maybe you ought to do your family tree and see if you're descended from any of our founding fathers who broke the law to bring America her future. I am and my hubby is. We love this land. My children will not give into the whims of someone like these liberal professors who think they're educated and they aren't.

Posted by: Lynn at November 5, 2007 06:28 AM


Grosswiler is probably safely tenured. He is typical of several liberal professors I ran across in the 60's nd 70's. There is something wrong in the college environment that attracts liberals like moths to a flame. The fact that many students make it through this liberal indoctrination says much more for students than professors.

Posted by: TomR at November 5, 2007 09:54 AM


There is a very big reason why tiny little people
like Grosswiler are able to run their mouths like they do and still keep their job. the Gentelman
below is a prime reason...

Dear Sir,

My name is Sgt. Paul Szoldra. I am a U.S. Marine here at Camp Pendleton, CA. I am an instructor at the School of Infantry...I always liked your section of "Someone you should know". I wanted to submit a piece for this section for my mentor, SSgt. Jason C. Ramseyer. It is unfortunate that this man gave his life for his country, even earning the Bronze Star with Combat "V", and it was not even mentioned in the media at all. I hope that your website would be able to at least shed some light on his sacrifice.

I first met SSgt. Ramseyer in 2003 after returning from a 6 month deployment with Battalion Landing Team 3/3, 31st MEU(SOC) to Okinawa and the Western Pacific. It's unusual to have someone new to your unit or platoon and instantly you are impressed. Usually there is some time to feel that person out, and eventually he starts to earn the respect of the platoon. In this instance, it was just the opposite. SSgt. Ramseyer joined us from Instructor Duty at the Marine Corps Officer "The Basic School", where he trained them in Mortar gunnery and as a Martial Arts Instructor.

From the moment he stepped on deck, we noticed how great a Marine he was. He wore the double-red tab on his Black martial arts belt, signifying that he was at the top in the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program. His uniform from his cover down to his boots was impeccable. He challenged us on runs, doing all kinds of exercises, running us up hills, and donning gas masks for PT. He took us on live and non-live fire training, building our infantry skills and teamwork. He guided us through classes on mortars and call for fire, relying on his own memory and experience. We didn't know why he pushed us so much until the spring of 2004, when we learned that we would deploy to Afghanistan for Operation Enduring Freedom.

We deployed to Afghanistan in November 2004 confident and ready for the mission at hand. We conducted hundreds of patrols throughout the Area of Operations, disrupting terrorist activities, conducting cordon and search operations, and discovering hundreds of weapons caches. Every member of our platoon returned safe and without incident in June of 2005. SSgt. Ramseyer's personal commitment to all of us brought us through safely.

In December of 2005, I left 3rd Bn, 3rd Marines and went on to be an instructor at the School of Infantry. SSgt. Ramseyer, as well as many of my brothers stayed for their last deployment with the battalion. In March 2006, they deployed to Haditha Dam and Hit, in the then-volatile al Anbar province of Iraq. For this deployment, SSgt. Ramseyer was hand picked to command the Battalion Commander's Security Detachment, also known as the Jump. It was here that SSgt. Ramseyer would prove himself once more, leading his men on numerous patrols with distinction.

On April 20, 2006, SSgt. Ramseyer was in the lead vehicle of a five-vehicle convoy. As the convoy moved through Dam Village on a security patrol, SSgt. Ramseyer spotted a suspicious object in the road. He immediately called to halt the vehicles and had his men dismount and conduct 5 and 25 meter checks around the area. The Marines attempted to identify the object but were unable, so SSgt. Ramseyer decided to conduct a V-shaped sweep forward. As they moved forward, SSgt. Ramseyer assumed the critical position at the apex of the V while he pushed his men out on the flanks to threaten a possible trigger man. SSgt. Ramseyer realized it was an improvised explosive device and instinctively turned and warned his Marines to get back. A split second later, the device was detonated, wounding the Staff Sergeant, and two other Marines. Although hit in his femoral artery, he attempted to turn and run to another wounded Marine to try and render first aid, but was overcome by his own wounds. He repeatedly refused medical treatment until his fellow Marines were looked after, and continued to issue directions for casualty evacuation and security. His last second warning to his Marines undoubtedly saved their lives and prevented more serious injuries. SSgt. Ramseyer was evacuated by helicopter from the site. While on the helicopter receiving medical care, he ignored his own mortal injury and repeatedly asked for assurance that his Marines were alright. Before that helicopter touched down again, SSgt. Jason Carroll Ramseyer was dead. He was 29 years old, leaving behind a wife and two daughters.

For his actions on that day, SSgt. Ramseyer was awarded the Bronze Star with Combat "V" Distinguishing Device. His citation is as follows:

For heroic achievement in connection with combat operations involving conflict with an opposing force while serving as Platoon Commander, Jump Platoon, Headquarters and Service Company, 3d Battalion, 3d Marines, Regimental Combat Team-7, I Marine Expeditionary Force Forward, from 15 March to 20 April 2006, in support of Operation IRAQI FREEDOM. Demonstrating an undying commitment to excellence and mission accomplishment, Staff Sergeant Ramseyer consistently performed his demanding duties in an exceptional manner. Recognized as a master of his profession, his devotion to duty, tactical expertise, and his ability to elicit maximum effort from those around him earned the respect and admiration of all Marines with whom he served. While conducting a mounted security patrol in support of Operation RESTORE TRUST, Staff Sergeant Ramseyer alertly identified a suspicious object that posed a threat to his patrol. While maneuvering with his Marines to secure the area, he instinctively recognized the object to be an improvised explosive device and warned his Marines to move back. A moment later, the device detonated, mortally wounding Staff Sergeant Ramseyer and seriously wounding two other Marines. Although grievously wounded and sensing the extent of his injuries, Staff Sergeant Ramseyer repeatedly directed that medical treatment be given to his fellow Marines first. Staff Sergeant Ramseyer's disregard for his own personal safety, coupled with the ability to make critical and timely decisions, saved the lives of his fellow Marines. By his zealous initiative, courageous actions, and exceptional dedication to duty, Staff Sergeant Ramseyer reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and the United States Naval Service.

I will never forget SSgt. Ramseyer for his leadership, mentoring, professionalism, devotion, and his ultimate sacrifice. I hope you never forget as well.

Semper Fidelis, Staff Sergeant Ramseyer.

Paul Szoldra
Sgt (0341/0913)
Marine Combat Instructor
Delta Co. ITB, School of Infantry (W)

From Blackfive!!!Some one you should know!!!



Posted by: Tincan Sailor at November 5, 2007 11:38 AM


Darth, that is a good idea.

Posted by: Wild Thing at November 5, 2007 11:29 PM


Lynn I agree so much, I wish they would do that to this professor. It really gets me how they act like they are the ones that know and everyone else is stupid. WRONG we know why we live in the land of the free and they go out of their way to teach differently. grrrrrr

Posted by: Wild Thing at November 5, 2007 11:34 PM


Tom isn't that something, I wonder too how they can stand it.

Posted by: Wild Thing at November 5, 2007 11:36 PM


Tincan Sailor yes exactly, it is men like SSgt. Ramseyer that have made it possible. Thank s Tincan.

Posted by: Wild Thing at November 5, 2007 11:39 PM


How about a compromise?
They can burn the flag and get extra points if they do two things:
-They must do the deed with NO MEDIA or CAMERAS in the area
-It must be done on a Marine Corp base (the great unwashed may choose the base)
See, that's fair.

BTW, Da Bears didn't lose....oh sweet Sunday!

Posted by: navycopjoe at November 7, 2007 12:41 AM


navycopjoe, I really like your idea.

Heh heh they wouldn't last long on a Marine base.hahhaha

Yipeee Bears! Good to see you.

Posted by: Wild Thing at November 7, 2007 12:49 AM